Curse

Sable Phoenix · Nov 04, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Okay, let's take a look at a few of these insignia... and this is only the ones that are actually available, mind you, never mind all those that are constantly out of stock.

Minion Master's Insignia, 1100 gold each. Sentinel's Insignia, 1700 gold each. Radiant Insignia... 3200 gold each.

3200 gold. That's more than the armor it will be applied to. A single piece of max Elonian armor with one of these insignia will cost anywhere from 2100 to 4200 gold per piece.

On the other hand, I can go to Cantha and get any of these armors, including "Radiant" armor, for 1500 per piece, not counting materials.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture?

Radiant Insignia are turning into the Superior Vigor of Insignia... but they're much, much more critical to the game and the function of a character than are Superior Vigors.

More and more I'm finding myself convinced that Insignia were a bad idea. I think it is highly disturbing how the basic equipment needed to play the game -- I do not mean rare weapon skins or perfect mods, but a simple things like max AL armor -- have steadily increased in price with each chapter, making it harder and harder on the new and casual player. Insignia are a huge step forward (or perhaps I should say backward) in this trend.

Insignia should not, repeat not, under any circumstances, be a dynamically priced commodity. They need to be frozen at 500 gold apiece, regardless of attribute, in order to make a fair comparison with earlier chapters' armors.

And while you're at it, make an Insignia Crafter, separate from the Rune Trader.

Horuku · Nov 04, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

They should just make the armor insignia's available for buying at the armor merchants, otherwise I will NEVER have good armor for my paragon...

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 04, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

It's only been the first week and so of course these insignias are going to be rare and more expensive. Why are you freaking out and jumping to conclusions so early in the game?

The prices will drop on the insignias. Stop worrying.

Sidra · Nov 04, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

But unless they drop below or to the standards of normal armor pricing, elonian armor and the incentive to create elonian characters (and buying nightfall) would probably be a moot point.

Phoenix Arrows · Nov 04, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

You don't HAVE to have Radiant Armor for your PvEs. You can always use any other cheaper one. They all are perfect, so just get a different one. You like one more than another, as does many other people, and thus you want that one to be cheaper. I want 500000000000000000000000000000000000 Ectos, but you don't see me crying about it. Also, since you can change the stats of your armors, it's already saving you money for buying multiple sets.

Sable Phoenix · Nov 04, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

The prices are not going to drop significantly. Already, the trader keeps them in stock constantly. This means supply is already outstripping demand. Yet the high-demand Insignia remain over 1k. I don't see Radiant Insignia ever dropping below 2500. This is a fundamentally unfair system when the other two chapters are taken into account.

As for the rest, I stated my concerns in my OP; it has nothing to do with impatience or sour grapes or anything of the sort. I love it when people engage in totally irrelevant ad hominem attacks. You'd think I just insulted someone's mother.

Unkemptwolf · Nov 04, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horuku

They should just make the armor insignia's available for buying at the armor merchants, otherwise I will NEVER have good armor for my paragon...

QFT
/signed

Mr_T_bot · Nov 04, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I really don't know what possessed Arena Net to create a set up like this. Equipping armor with runes was already bad enough, but equipping armors with what should be inherent stats? They already had a perfect system for multiple stats for each look of armor in Factions.

Arkantos · Nov 04, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.

Sable Phoenix · Nov 04, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.

Number one, as I already said, that's unlikely, since the trader has most of these Insignia in stock constantly already. Superior Vigors and black dyes are always in stock, yet they remain at ridiculously high prices.

Number two, that's not the point. Please re-read the original post. They ought to all be 500 gold apiece in order to compare fairly to the previous chapters' armors, as well as be more fair to new or casual players who don't have huge hoards of gold.

Mr_T_bot · Nov 04, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.

Unlikely, people will always be putting together armors and as such will always need these insignias, and since their drop rate is variable, their prices will be subject to our absurd economy.

strcpy · Nov 04, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

They may eventually go way down in price, but at this point I doubt it. Some, yes, but they are staying at the trader now and only a few insignias will ever be popular.

The easiest (and cheapest) way to solve this is to increase the drop rate. I find quite a few blue and better armors (and thus, many runes) but few insignias. So far I think I have found two, maybe three, out of at least a dozen rune bearing armors. If every blue or greater (even better would include whites) had a random insignia from the class the monster was they would be cheap and plentiful. Have the max armor cost the same as the old max armor - then you either spend a hundred or so gold/insignia or just go farm that class for an hour or so for all your insignias.

Problem solved and most likely is just a small change in the table on drop rates. Heck, that would be even better for the newbies also.

Desires · Nov 04, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

If you can't afford a few k its not anets or our fault. Also some sets costs 15k or more when you include materials so 2.5 on that is not much and radiant is the only very high one.

Jongo River · Nov 04, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I found a Radient today - trader will give me 2800g, but what's so special? It's only 3 energy on chest, 2 on leg or 1 on "other" - chest is just one more than Attunement. Am I missing something - are people that desperate for energy?

ischuros · Nov 04, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

i have gotten four insignia's already, one repeat. They are survivor's, hydromancer (x2) and saboteurs(sp). They do not demand high prices, witht the exception maybe of Survivors, so i'll just make this clear. only insignia's which are in demand, i.e radiant or MM will be high priced. A previous poster (the op i think) said that Black dye and superior vigor are always in stock and highly priced. Purple dye and any number of ordinary and major runes are always in stock and low prices. Demand for good insignias will make the marlet pricehigh, but since demand for other insignia's, i'll take Hydromancers as an example, is relatively low, it should be ok. i'd expect the vast majority of insignia's to drop significantly in a montth or so, but the high end, demnd heavy, supply short ones, will as always demand a high price. Nothing really to worry about, it's just economics.

Also, i got a Beastmaster's insignia.

Juicey Shake · Nov 04, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

/signed

I shouldn't have to pay so much more for something I could already get.
wtb 200g per radiant insignia from trader ty!

or make them craftable? 100g + parchment + dust~

Arkantos · Nov 04, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

Number two, that's not the point. Please re-read the original post. They ought to all be 500 gold apiece in order to compare fairly to the previous chapters' armors, as well as be more fair to new or casual players who don't have huge hoards of gold.

And how do you know that these prices won't go down to 500g each? Give it time. As I said, everyone want's insigna's right now. Once NF settles in the prices will drop, and they could even go less then 500g.

Quote:

Unlikely, people will always be putting together armors and as such will always need these insignias, and since their drop rate is variable, their prices will be subject to our absurd economy.

You're right, people will always be putting together armor. But, Nightfall has been out for almost a week. The supply is the lowest it will ever be, and the demand is the highest it will ever be.

Zakarr · Nov 04, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I'm more worried about new players which have only Nightfall campaign. They will have great difficulties to get wanted armor properties.

Cherno · Nov 04, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

I really don't know what possessed Arena Net to create a set up like this. Equipping armor with runes was already bad enough, but equipping armors with what should be inherent stats? They already had a perfect system for multiple stats for each look of armor in Factions.

The reason was to be able to change your armor around without having to buy a whole other set and using up inventory space. I like this idea a lot, especially so that you can mix and match things up to tweak them. I want a glads set for my warrior or do I want one with extra armor? Well guess I need to buy two full sets to cover my bases. Now you just have to buy one set and can switch out insignias.

But I don't like that they are subject to the fluctuating market. I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra when I craft my armor for the insignias but to keep them at a steady price and always have them available. But then that begs the question, if you can do so with insignias, why can't you do that with runes as well? They would have to make the runes available in the same way.

I don't imagine they will change it but what would be in their control is to make sure there is a very steady stream of these insignias drop so that their price stays low.

Mr_eX · Nov 04, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Just because the rune trader doesn't have them in stock doesn't mean that they're not in high supply. It just means it's no longer profitable for the rich farming/powertrader guilds to buyout the rune trader's entire inventory.

But anyway, as others have said, demand is especially high right now because all of these items are brand new. It happened with Sorrow's Furnace greens (Brohn's Set used to cost ~500k,) it happened with the Ruins of Tombs greens, it happened with Canthan greens, it's happened with all the various event items, it's happened with weapon mods, it's happened with minipets, and now it's happening with all of these new Nightfall items.

The Insignia supply *will* grow very large, and prices *will* go down in time. If you don't believe this, then you need to study economics. There's nothing else to say about it.

Those of you complaining about the extra cost need to consider that the base costs of the armors have been adjusted to 1k, 5k, 10k, and 15k to compensate for the need for insignias. Having to spend a couple extra plat tops on insignias shouldn't make a difference to your xunlai account if you can already afford 15k armor.

Finally, if you don't like the system, then feel free to not craft any armor. Nobody is forcing you to craft Elonian armor. Go back to Cantha/Tyria to craft your armors. You already bought the game, so now you're stuck with what you've paid for. If you dislike the system that much, you should have done more research before buying the game. ANet/NCSoft already have your stamp of approval in the form of your money, and thus they don't need to change a thing.